A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE

The So Spake Martin collection has been updated with a number of reports from this past weekend’s Trinoc*Con, where GRRM made an appearance. Some interesting tidbits include George’s remarks on the warging abilities of the Stark children, future Dunk and Egg stories, the Sandsnakes, and more.

The So Spake Martin collection has been updated with a link to a new interview with George, which also features Daniel Abraham and Gardner Dozois as it’s primarily focused on the forthcoming release of Hunter’s Run.

Namely, I hate them.

I hate, I hate, I hate, I hate, I hate heroes, in whatever shape, form, gender, age they assume.

In every book I read (or movie I watch, or TV show I follow), I find myself enthusiastically rooting for the villains to win, no matter how vile their deeds, no matter how twisted their ends.

I've tried to force myself to like the hero, constantly saying to myself "Oh boy, oh yes, can't wait to see that dull but honest farmboy slay that rampaging dragon. Can't wait to see the destined hero confound the villain's designs. I'll cheer when the noble protagonist captures the heart of his True Wuv, and Lives Happily Ever After."

But I never cheer. I always feel sad when the dragon is slain. I would much prefer to see the hero roasted in the scorching flames of the dragon's breath. There is something so grand about dragons, chimeras, basilisks and the like. In comparison, farmboys wielding magical swords seem so empty. How can I feel any sense of satisfaction to see a farmboy, or other generic do-gooder, someone who is so wretched, so plain, so dull slay such fabulous monsters?

I always fume when the hero thwarts the villain's dark designs. The villain's plans always seem so spectacular, so inventive, that I cannot help but hope they succeed. Linked with that is the villain himself. I find much to admire in a man who is capable of long term planning, innovation, and strategy. In contrast to the villain, there is the hero who merely seems to plod along and does his best to gum up the works. I mean, how much talent does it require to throw a monkey-wrench into the gears? Frankly, I find the hero's mania with foiling evil plots to be quite vulgar, a mark of low character.

Does anyone else feel the same way? How have you dealt with your hero-hate?

Hi there!

To help promote the release of Fatal Revenant, I'll be interviewing Donaldson next month. Feel free to submit your own questions, and the most interesting ones will be chosen to comprise the Q&A.

By the way, I just started Fatal Revenant and it's pretty good thus far!

Patrick

I'm seriously considerring selling my complete set along with the future rights (AFFC is on order).

Please send me serious offers. Pictures can be provided and I'll see about putting them in this post.

Thanks.

Read this by Jonathan McCalmont.

Some interesting discussion should result in this, but my initial reaction - let me count the ways I disagree...

well i think its obscure. i read it years ago. dont remember the title or the author. Makes it tough I know. But hoping someone here would recognize a description

bassicaly its set in a modern world. Only in this world there are various ways of controlling/prediciting the future I think it is.

Based off something called a babbage machine (spelling?) that was invented in the 19th century, a few differnt groups have come up with ways to use these machines and the advances developed off of it to control things. Differnt secret societies and such.

In fact, i think they even change the nature of the human population to make them more easy to manipulate.

a woman.. and maybe a guy? stumble into the middle of things. and the 2 or 3 secret groups are all fighting and these people arei n the middle. something like that.

sorry i cant remember more

I had to read "A Shadow in Summer" twice to really fully understand its nuances (which are very important to the story). And even then, it was a read that required a lot of concentration.

By the way, I never found the characters' "posing" to be unnatural or out of place considering the story...I mean, with 80% of our communication being non-verbal, it makes sense that a fictional society might actually make more formal use of this communication, especially one with an Eastern flavor. That's just something that most people complain of. But whatever.

Anyways, have just read the first chapter in BiW, and found it VERY readable and immediately engaging. I don't think it will be necessarily lighter than book 1...just easier to appreciate now that the stage is set.

Anyone else in reading progress??

Does anyone know of any good online writer's forums? Ideally as interactive as possible with a fantasy/sci-fi slant. Also if it's tied to any specifically country (ie has a physical presence) ideally in the UK.

All thoughts gratefully received.

So, I assume this board harbors many who secretly think/hope/wish that someday they will crush all oppossition and crank out the DEFINITIVE epic fantasy novel.

We have listed the many, many cliches that make us cringe.

So, how would you dodge, sidestep, or make-better these standard failings?

What will be the fresh features of your door-stopper epic?

What have you noticed from good author's that you would implement in your book?

Here's how I would do it:

1. I would submit my map to a Professor of geography. I will have him/her make sure that the deserts/jungles/frozen wastelands could exist in the places I have them.
2. The heroes/characters will be young adults or older. If I have to have children characters I will realize that I cannot have the plot hinge upon them acheiving an incredible, globe-changing feat at 9 years old.
3. Magic will be kept at a minimum and kept mysterious. I will never go into exhaustive detail how the magic system works.
4. There will be no other fantasy races except humans.
5. I will include all the other races/shades of humanity, instead of an entire cast of blond,blue eyed Caucasians.
6. My characters will swear and want to have sex with each other. This will be described, but not gratuitously.
7. Averting the end of the world will not be a feature of my story.
8. Everyone will know EXACTLY who their parents are.
9. Many of my characters will die.
10. If the story is set in a quasi medieval world, I will make the characters already members of the nobility. If i have to include a farmboy, he will be just a farmboy. He will not rule any nations. Most likely I will have him brutally slain while tending his cornfields.
11. My characters will all be various shades of gray in morality, with a few that are very dark and very light for contrast. The majority will be in the middle.
12. My characters will have simple to pronounce, and easy to remember names. No dashes or excessive y's, x's and z's will be permited.
13. I will avoid having any prophecies. If I have to have one, I will be sure to make it excessively wrong or misdirecting. Edited to add: And by wrong I mean, the prophecy will be so ridiculously off base/meaningless that the prophecy is still wildly incorrect even after all the facts are known.
14. I will write my book so that it is very unclear what my political and philosophical leanings are. I will NOT use my books as a platform to convert people to my beliefs.
15. I will rip off real-world/Earth history instead of Tolkien. (Aside from the parts Tolkien ripped off Real History )
16. Since my book is in a medieval era, the armies in my books will not have 500,000 troops and up. (Edited for Mr. Manticore)
17. The best warrior in my books will still have a tremendous problem with taking on more than 4 people in a fight at a time and surviving.
18. I will attempt to understand women and create well-written female characters that are authentic and not-annoying as all hell. I will consult all the women I know to assure that my writing is on target.
19. The plot will involve dense political contests instead of a quest for the object of power.
20. My characters will make mistakes, some of them will be ugly, and some of them will be crappy fighters, and some of them will be downright stupid.
21.. In my book, there will be no clear cut enemies or Dark Lord. Instead the oppossition will be made up of other human beings with realistic and believable ideals and goals. They will simply differ in their views and goals from my "heroes".
22. Any romance described will take place in an organic and natural progression, instead of fated love whereupon laying eyes for the first time on each leads to undying pure love thereafter. People will cheat on each other, reconcile (or not) afterwards, and maybe break up again. Like in the real world. Also, sometimes the main protagonist will not get his/her desired mate. (Courtesy of Terra Prime)
23. The book will be grim and depressing as all hell.
24. The book will be sexually realistic and feature homosexuality. (Anal sex is apparently required according to the board)
25. Before writting my epic I will take a long hard look at my fantasy world, and figure out population levels, food production, city sizes, and the basics of the economy. I will make lists of what types of goods which region has and how many people its terrain could support in reality. I will work out what kind of buying power whatever currency my fantasy characters use and keep this uniform throughout the series. Also, I will not have a city the size of ancient Rome in the middle of a tundra. The Geography Proffessor from number 1 will help me out again.

Thats all i got for now, list yours!

Quick question about Lightbringer Stannis' sword...is it made out of valryian steel and if so was it from the steel of stannis old sword...I would look it up myself but dont remember where in book two it happened...anyhow after someone answers this, u can lock the topic up thanx

So this thread is to discuss, ponder, and hypothisize about the strengths, weaknesses, and future of the 7 large Houses in the game of thrones. Here’s my opinion on them:

The Starks
Opinion: Has chance of reuniting under Sansa Stark if Littlefinger’s plans go as planned but as of now it is split into to many loyaltys. Bolton to Lannister, Karstark to Stannis. The only chance for it to reunite would be under Sansa or Bran, though I think Sansa is the better bet if at all.
Power Players: Littlefinger, Blackfish, Sansa Stark, Bran Stark, Lyn Cobry, Bronze Yohn Rocye

The Lannisters
Though it is strong in players and in numbers, I think the Lannisters have seen their best days passed. With the death of Tywin and Joffrey, Cersei’s imprisonment, Tyrion’s exile, and Jaime belonging to the Kingsgaurd and hand maimed, the Lannister house is quickly running out of leaders. Cersei’s actions have severly damaged the strength of the Lannisters. If Cersei is able to resurface from her trial (which I doubt could happen) she will at least be tarnished and possibly exiled. It appears now that the Lannisters are being run under the Hand Kevan. Though Tommen appears to easily side with the Tyrells over his own house. Also Waters with much of the naval strength of the Lannisters no longer holds allegiance under the Lannisters (possibly with Stannis). Furthermore, the Kingsgaurd is all but gone since Arys, Moore, and Greenfield have been killed. Also Trant has been severly sick and Osmund could be indited under treason by the church. Loras himself is battling death (though this could help in some way) and Blout is old and out of shape. The only completely untarnished member is Swann who could find his end in Dorne. Speaking of which Myrcella is maimed now and her marriage appears to be no contractual obligation of loyalty with Dorne. All in all the Lannisters I think are about to fall flat on their face.
Power Players: Kevan lannister, Jaime Lannister, Addam Marbrand, Paxter Redwyne, Lancel Lannister, Tommen Baratheon, Myrcella Lannister, Lancel Lannister

Baratheon (Stannis really)
Stannis is gaining strength in my opinion with the possible allegiance with the North and the possible addition of Waters’ ships. Though the Rainbow guard has been destroyed and Devos is possibly dead, things with Stannis aren’t to bad though he is not the strongest player either.
Power Players: Stannis Baratheon, Devos Seaworth, Melisandre, Salladhor Saan, Selyse Baratheon

House Targaryen
If there is one House that is the strongest currently at the ending of AFOC, I think its this House. Dany has much coin, 3 dragons, the Unsullied, and a strong queensgaurd. Also Dany is possibly going to have the favor of Tyrion, Euron, and Dorne. Lastly Marwyn is going to go to Dany in guidance and could possibly help control the dragons better. This House is only getting stronger, the only downfall is that no heirs can come from Dany.
Power Players: Daenerys Targaryen, Ser Barristan Selmy, Strong Belwas, Grey Worm, Daario Naharis, Magister Illyrio

Ironborn
The problem with the Ironborn is that allegiances have split. Euron is currently in power tho at the spite of the rest of his direct family. Victarion is going to go claim Dany for himself and not Euron. Asha is tring to win the throne herself, Theon is held captive, and Aeron is trying to unthrone Euron. “There are no “I”s in team”, and this house has about 5 of them.
Power Players: Euron Crow’s Eye, Asha Greyjoy, Victarion Greyjoy, Aeron Damphair

House Martell
Dornes plans would have gone perfectly if it was not for Arianne’s scheming.The Red Viper is dead. Myrcella has been injured which could start a war with the Lannisters. Though Quentyn might find the favor of Dany which could help Dorne regain the crown.
Power Players: Doran Martell, Arianne Martell, Quentyn Martell, Aero Hotah

House Tyrell
Though Margaery is going to be put under trial I don’t think she will be found guilty nor loose the crown. One concerning bit is that Loras is severly injured and could possibly die or recover and not be able to fight any longer. One plus side is that Garlan and the Tyrells have gained the Florents Land. Lastly Margaery has Tommen under her complete spell which is, I think, the Tyrell’s best attribute.
Power Players: Margaery Tyrell, Mace Tyrell, The Queen of Thorns, Ser Garlan Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, Willas Tyrell

Current strongest power: House Lannister
Best future power: House Targaryen

Is it just me or does Tom O'Sevens, who last i checked seemed to be with Dondarrion's rogueish band, seem to talk with Jaime at the end of AFFC in Riverrun? What's he doing there anyway? An inside job?

Edit 2 - Now decided on Galway, 25-27th-April

Edited to change title since Galway is looking like the most popular

Ok. Questions.

1. Copenhagen Con is next month. Then next year is Denver WorldCon which a couple of us are planning on going to. Should we look at getting something organised in between? Would you be up for it?

2. If so, when? Late this year? Early next year? Late spring?

3. Where should we have it? List the options - we can decide after. (Personal thoughts - from the last couple of years, due to the densities of Boarders - the UK and Eire have worked best. I am not adverse to going elsewhere but it would need commitment and I'm as guilty as anyone of failing to make these)

4. Any other comments

Hello all, I'm starting a new interview series that should be a fun opportunity for authors to relax a bit and do some blatant self promotion. In the interest of not clogging up the message board, I though a single post might be the best place to contain them.


The first interview is with Tobias Buckell, author of Crystal Rain and Ragamuffin - enjoy.



If this turns out to be too much on the side of blog propoganda, well this post can languish in deletion or just fade away.

Hi my friends, just wanted to give you the first press release to Dean Koontz's graphic adaption of Frankenstein: Prodigal Son, enjoy!

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=125783

Sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere; I couldn't find anything using the site search.

Dan Simmons recently updated his website to announce that he'll be writing a story for Songs of the Dying Earth, a proposed anthology of stories set in Jack Vance's "Dying Earth" milieu and edited by George R.R. Martin and Gardner Dozois. For more info, including an excerpt from GRRM's letter about the project, click here.

That's quite an impressive list of possible contributors.

I'm sure this has been discussed a lot, but I couldnt find a topic on it, so...

In the last Sansa chapter, she talks to Myranda Royce and she tells Sansa that

But this quote appears far after Dragonstone is reported fallen! It could just be that the news in the vale is behind, but then why would Riverrun's fall be known and Storm's end's not? So either Myranda or Cersei is getting false information, and my money's on Cersei

What are the five worst books you have read in the past five years? Note: they do not have to be published in the past five years, you only have had read them in that time frame. And please give a brief reason of why you did not like them.

My List (no particular order):
Terry Goodkind's Pillars of Creation:
All of the books in the SOT series was pretty bad, but this one took the cake. I am someone cursed with not giving up on a series once I have started it, but this book was so bad I dropped the series like a steaming hot squishy dog turd that somehow made it into my hand. From an evil character blowing up a poor living chicken like a balloon to kill it for kicks (what is it with Goodkind and fowl anyway?) to the nobility of goats, and the adventures of a sociopathic rapist/murderer, I just could not take it anymore.

Laurell K. Hamilton's Danse Macabre:
Another series killer, though at least (unlike Goodkind) the first several books of the Anita Blake Vampire Hunter series were fun little supernatural mysteries. Literally no plot, though there were a couple of strands of something that might have become a plot if the author had bothered to develop them. Mostly very boring and badly written sex scenes, very boring and badly written scenes of vampire politics (all revolving around whose servants could enter into sexual service to Anita Blake next), and endless emo angsting about sex. Yuck. This is what happens when writers go bad. And the how the hell can sex be so boring????

Christopher Paolini's Eragon:
Not an original thought in a rather lengthy book. I wonder if George Lucas can sue for a plot that so closely follows Star Wars Episode Four?

Nights With Sasquatch
I do not think I could say anymore about this awful little book - the title says it all.

Rita Mae Brown's Cat's Eyewitness:
I have recently given up on this long lasting mystery series. While the last two books, Sour Puss and Puss 'n Cahoots were truly craptactular, in restrospect, this is the book where the author jumped the shark on her Mrs. Murphy Mysteries. She took long developed characters and abruptly changed their personalities, and even, in one case, sexual orientation. But the worst thing was turning all of the characters into mouthpieces for her political and social views. Sorry, I do not need to hear the author's political beliefs through the mouths of cats. God, I hate preachy writers. If you want to wax on endlessly about your views on politics and society, please write an editorial for your local paper - do not pervert a long standing best selling mystery series with that crap.


So which books have completely turned you off?