A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE

Well, this one sort of crept out of nowhere. Its set in the alternate history presented in the 'Ash' series. Its main character is an aritist. Its a bloody huge book. Its got a haemophrodite. It's carried by a single POV the whole way through. It starts off in a carthage that never existed. And to get things going its got a haemophrodite sex scene in the first few pages.

Yep, it's a Mary Gentle book. Just getting started today. Anyone read it or plan to?

In fantasy books, I've always enjoyed the "barbarian" archetype. Ever since I read Robert E. Howard's Conan books, these characters have always appealed to me, oftentimes becoming my favorite character in a book. There's something about taking them out from their wild, barbaric cultures and placing them amongst more "civilized" characters.

Some examples include:
Conan (of course)
Karsa from the Malazan Books
Cnaiur from the Prince of Nothing, who saved the series for me.
And many more.

Can anyone recommend me any books that have good barbarian characters?

Love this board and the books! I prefer to just read the board and learn but I thought this was worth posting since I haven’t read anything on this topic. If you are utterly hopelessly romantic Sandor/Sansa shipper (like me) I hope you’ll find this post rather interesting!

I noticed that Sansa kept Sandor’s stained white Kingsguard cloak hidden in a cedar chest beneath her summer silks (I think that the chest went to the vale with her too?)
It got me to wondering if GRRM described the chest being made of cedar wood for a reason. I know that other chests have been described as cedar but I thought it was an interesting notion…so I trawled the internet to see what the Cedar tree symbolises.

While I don’t certainly don’t expect (or want) Sandor’s ferocity and emo to damper too much I wonder if the presence of the cloak in Sansa’s chest may be a reflection of the period of time that he is spending on the Isle itself... she did sincerely pray for him in the sept after all, that the rage inside him would be somewhat gentled.
Anyways here is what I found:

The cedar is the tree of mystics, often associated with the sephiroth tree of Kabbalah, or the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden.

Cedar symbolizes cleansing/Cedar: Cleanses negative atmospheres. To many cultures it is the “tree of life”…this is interesting because Sandor may be going through kind sort of physical/mental cleansing on the Quiet Isle…he is at least at least, for the moment, at rest there, as Elder Brother says.

Cedar symbolises - grandeur, might, majesty, dignity, worldly strength, power and glory.

Cedars are mentioned 70 times in the Bible and are called "trees of the Lord."

Cedar (of Lebanon) is also identified with the concepts of beauty and majesty…and we all know Sansa loves beauty and majesty!

Trees used by the Druids in their cosmology and/or alphabet include the Cedar – it represented protection from harm and evil forces…hmm interesting…

The green cedar (Arz in Arabic) (Species: Cedrus libani or Lebanon Cedar) symbolizes immortality and steadiness.

In Hebrew literature the Cedar symbolizes strength. "If the Cedars catcheth thy flame, what will say thy moss...?"( tractate MoEd KaTan 25 ).

Japanese cedar symbolizes the concept of rebirth after a period of dormancy that is central to Japan’s native Shinto beliefs…Eureka!...well Sandor is living in a period of dormancy on the Quite Isle..

Cedar reduces turmoil by physically cleansing and bringing a fresh breath of air to anyone resisting a necessary change. It clarifies messages from the higher self and the universe and promotes a peaceful flow…now if anyone needs his turmoil reducing its Sandor.
I found this one the most interesting!! - Historically, cedar chests were sold as romantic wedding gifts and as "hope chests" for young women to keep special items in anticipation of their marriage. Somebody on the board has said that Sandor already gave Sansa his cloak which she accepted (twice), which is what they exchange instead of wedding rings in Westeros. It’s telling that the second bloody cloak is safely now ensconced in her cedar wood chest…underneath soft silk. I think that this could be a strong hint that Sansa and Sandor are indeed practically married and that she will remain a maiden for him and no one else, the song that he will have from her is actually her maidenhood …but they don’t know it yet.
Any thoughts?

SF Scope is reporting that Lloyd Alexander has died. I'm sure a lot of people here read his Prydain series when they were younger. For my part, they were among the first fantasy books I ever read, and left an indelible memory.

I'd also recommend his Westmark series, if you want to try something a bit different.

For a change of pace from fantasy check out "Eagle in the Snow" by Wallace Breem. It deals with the last Roman Legion left behind to defend the northern frontier of Rome against the Germans. The parallels are uncanny. A group of good fighters who are hopelessly ounumbered building defenses in winter against an oncoming horde of barbarians.

There was a lot of debate about the quality of AffC.

Yes, it's the weaker book of ASoIaF. Yes, the "all the story for half the charachter" format did not work very weel. And yes, is mosly unfinished. Still better than any other fantasy book actually in the market, but not at the level of the first 3 books of the series (at least untill we will read ADwD).

Having said that, there are lot of reason why I appreciate even AFfC so much.

The first is that GRRM have signed my copy of the book in Lucca (Italy) as soon as I've bought it, jocking at me about my theory on Jon Snow parents .

The most important "pro" about that book is that with AFfC we have seen for the first time Westeros and its people, expecially the lowest people of Westeros society.

One of the complaints that I've heard about ASoIaF in the past was that Westeros society was a little bit unbelievable from a storic point of view. People seem unable to react to the violence of their lords and seem too much resigned to their fait of submission and humilation. Moreover we do not see very much about folk's tradition and behaviour.

One of the worst cliche of fantasy is that history is made by great man (of noble blood), army and magic. People are only passive observer of the choices of the great heroes. My problem is not about politics (even if it matters) but only about the realism of the novel (wich is very important in a low fantasy series like ASoIaF).

With AFfC our view changes totally. Finally we see the heart of Westeros people. We see their lives, their stuggle, their many sorrows and what they hope for the future. With the Sparrows and the militant faith the people of Westeros rise and try to make their history, changing the course of events. They became a real characther of the story, in the better tradition of literature.

I know: the religious rebellion of european history rarely achieve the goals that they have sought but nonetheless they were an important manifestation of the historic potential of "people will".

I think that from a literary point of view it was very important to add that element wich has given more depth and credibility to the ASoIaF's setting.

What do you think? Am I wrong? Am I seeing too much?

Bye,
Ellroy.

Ps: I apologize if my english is not so good. I'm italian and I write as best as I can.

Been discussed a couple of times but without any firm plans being made. George was really pushing the festival in Gijon next year at the L.A. Worldcon - http://www.semananegra.org/

It's running from the 4th to the 13th of July. There's a couple of people planning to go already, anyone up for this as a get-together? Sounds like a larf (not that I can actually read Spanish:p)

My brother sent me this link

http://www.secondlifeinsider.com/2007/05/1...at-the-shelter/

I have not seen this mentioned before so thought I would pass it on. The question and answers after the reading might be intreasting to see if he mentions release dates etc

During my most recent re-read I noticed (with a shiver) a number of places where there seem to be clear parallels drawn between Arya and her mother in her Lady Stoneheart incarnation.

Consider the "ghost of High Heart's" dream/prophecy about Catelyn (Cat) after the Red Wedding:

"Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks but, when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror." (III 249)

and the "ghost's" words to Arya when she meets her:

"Blood child, I thought it was the lord who smelled of death...Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!" (III 492)

or think about Lady Stoneheart's (Cat's) mission against the Freys and consider:

"She [Arya] would have whispered the names of the Freys of the Crossing too ... one day I'll know, she told herself, and then I'll kill them." (IV 312)

and

Arya POV "I have a hole where my heart should be." (IV 318)

and, creepiest of all , when novice Faceless Man Arya is asked what her new identity will be when she leaves the Temple she answers:

"'Could I be Cat?' 'Cat.' He considered...'You are Cat, an orphan...' ... so happy she could dance... valar morghulis...I am a cat now, not a wolf." (IV 326)

Seems pretty clear that Arya's choice is going to lie between following in her mother, Cat's (Lady Stoneheart's), vengeful footsteps or reclaim the Stark, which despite the demands of the Faceless Men she hasn't given up (just buried away with Needle).

So, are the parallels there or am I imagining things? And what will Arya's choice be, Cat or wolf?

Okay this came to me while i was posting on another topic, but after the war is over, Dany wins, the long night is over, etc
will there be a need for the wall? i mean i dont see a 3rd coming of the others, that would be like Sauron (sp) coming back yet again in LOTR.
i think that after the war there shouldnt be a need for the wall, i mean its original purpose was to protect against the others, but for the last X years its been more of a anti-wildling wall. with the wildlings on the "good" side of the wall, whats its purpose?
i ramble and repeat myself, but hopefully you get what im trying to say
thanks in advance

Let's do this!

Rules:

No trolling or flaming of other messageboards or Wikis.
No personal attacks against other posters.
No cheese after midnight.
Do not FEED THE YEARD.
Do not stare into the yeard, lest the yeard stare into you.

Possible historical factoid: 1st Goodkind thread started from Ireland? Could well be. Can't be arsed to look it up.

GO! Have fun and try not to hurt yourselves or others.

Here is a glimpse of the concept art for Longclaw’s blade. This texture is going to be achieved with an etch and glaze wash combination. We went through around 16 different styles of blade coloring & texturing with George R.R. Martin before he picked this style for Longclaw. It is very dark, almost [...]

Just thought I'd start a thread where we can discuss what happened without having to blank everything out.

I finished this book a couple of hours ago, and I'm still not sure what to make of it. I enjoyed vast chunks of it, there were some fantastic scenes and horrible deaths, but I also felt some of it could have been taken away. I cared nothing for the storyline of Karos Invictad, Letur Anict or anything connected to either of them (except when Tehol gets involved with Karos). And the entire Redmask saga left me feeling a bit ... bleh about it.

The ending did feel very rushed, as if Erikson had a page limit he just had to stick to. If he'd removed the Redmask/Bivatt stuff, he could have made the rest of it a lot smoother. But then, doubtless the Redmask storyline will have a lot of relevance to one of the future books, particularly with the K'Chain Che'Malle involved.

But with all that said, still really liked this book. There's a lot of information to take in (nearly all the dragons being dead, for starters), and two really heartbreaking deaths: Trull and Toc. They both left me gutted, especially as I really didn't see Trull's coming.

RG leaves some question remaining about the power of the Soletaken Eleint. Quick takes out three of them (though he doesn't technically kill any of them himself), and Silchas Ruin got dealt with fairly easily at the end. There is more proof that Fiddler completely rocks, especially now that he has Hedge back with him. Though I didn't really like the idea of Hedge coming back to life. We don't need more resurrections.

Speaking of which, one of my favourite characters from the series is back, though I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. Brys was awesome in MT, and Erikson had better have a good reason for bringing him back to life after such a fantastic death.

There was just so much to take in in this book. The biggest question being: What the hell has happened to Icarium?

What do we know about the land of Norvos and the trainning that they give those who fight. Hotahh has the presence of someone who could kick ass...how well would he match up against a knight such as those of the Kingsguard.

For me it is a gradual build up of tension, and a few slam bang endings, a sucker for this. Sci-fi/Fantasy elements always welcome but not required. I don't care much for wandering around back and forth to the end or time jumping, but not seeming to mind in in Slaughterhouse 5 right now.

Also I hate bad endings or poor ones, totally prejudices me against other books by same writer.

Not so worried about stolen concepts, like Ben Bova has done, as long as it is pulled off well. (hint, hint Ergaon )

Greetings:

Some books are hard to find in audio versions so the top picks in my list I am in pursuit by used paperbacks. Do you all know/suggest any good bulk dealers or cheapies? I could care less on quality, just some low-end costs.

TIA

Frosty

Hi guys!

I have an autographed copy of Williams' Rite, a Subterranean Press limited edition which is now sold out.

Check the blog for all the details!

Patrick

I haven't been reading DC's 52 series.
Can anybody tell me what happened in the last ish? Or more specifically, what's the status of Barry Allen and Wally West?

And are the rumors true? Did a worm cause the multiverse?

Two parts of the ending didn't really click with me. First, when Jamie was trying to convince Edmure to instruct the Blackfish to hand over Riverrun, Jamie brings in a singer (who we later find out is Tom Sevenstrings), and Edmure seems generally afraid of Tom. Why?

And then in the final chapter, Sam is talking to the maester, who is (are) the "grey sheep" that he refers to?

(If these are obvious questions I apologize.... I read very slowly and sometimes I just forget connections).