October 2007
2007-10-29 08:32:47
Devices and Desires
Has this been mentioned? Any opinions? I picked it up because the price was right and I'd seen a coule devent reviews, but hadn't heard anything about it here abouts. Usually the Board has good sense about stuff like this.
Thought I'd ask.
Has this been mentioned? Any opinions? I picked it up because the price was right and I'd seen a coule devent reviews, but hadn't heard anything about it here abouts. Usually the Board has good sense about stuff like this.
Thought I'd ask.
2007-10-27 08:27:18
2007-10-25 15:29:33
2007-10-24 17:13:46
so...what've ya'll been reading? i've been on a TPB binge lately. the last couple of purchases,
1. the nightly news- been hearing great things about this. i haven't read it yet but the art is spectacular...in an obvious design student sort of way.
2. wanted- pretty good so far...millar is freakin' hilarious.
3. dmz- one of the best comics on the market, IMO.
4. phonogram- haven't read it yet but gillen and mckelvie are ace in my book.
just trying to get the conversation started again....
1. the nightly news- been hearing great things about this. i haven't read it yet but the art is spectacular...in an obvious design student sort of way.
2. wanted- pretty good so far...millar is freakin' hilarious.
3. dmz- one of the best comics on the market, IMO.
4. phonogram- haven't read it yet but gillen and mckelvie are ace in my book.
just trying to get the conversation started again....
2007-10-22 21:23:31
I searched for the old topic and couldn't find it, so I thought I'd start a new one.
I can't remember if I posted this one in the last thread, but I like it so much that I don't care.
From one of Akka's chapters in PoN:
I think this Langston Hughes poem is pretty appropriate for the board, especially General Chatter.
Aaaaaannnnnddddd some Joyce, just for fun:
Ok, remember, everything's fair game--from fiction to poetry to drama to whatever. Have at it.
I can't remember if I posted this one in the last thread, but I like it so much that I don't care.
From one of Akka's chapters in PoN:
QUOTE
A book was never "read." Here, as elsewhere, language betrayed the true nature of the activity. To say that a book was read was to make the same mistake as the gambler who crowed about winning as though he'd taken it by force of hand or resolve. To toss the number-sticks was to seize a moment of helplessness, nothing more. But to open a book was by far the more profound gamble. To open a book was not only to seize a moment of helplessness, not only to relinquish a jealous handful of heartbeats to the unpredictable mark of another man's quill, it was to allow oneself to be written. For what was a book if not a long consecutive surrender to the movements of another's soul?
I think this Langston Hughes poem is pretty appropriate for the board, especially General Chatter.
QUOTE
Looks like what drives me crazy
Don't have no effect on you--
But I'm gonna keep on at it
Till it drives you crazy, too.
Don't have no effect on you--
But I'm gonna keep on at it
Till it drives you crazy, too.
Aaaaaannnnnddddd some Joyce, just for fun:
QUOTE(Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man)
Mother indulgent. Said I have a queer mind and have read too much. Not true. Have read little and understood less. Then she said I would come back to faith because I had a restless mind. This means to leave church by backdoor of sin and reenter through the skylight of repentance. Cannot repent. Told her so and asked for sixpence. Got threepence.
Ok, remember, everything's fair game--from fiction to poetry to drama to whatever. Have at it.
2007-10-22 16:54:46
Some basic assumptions about what the Alchemist is up to in Oldtown. First, he's not working for Marwyn or for the grey sheep, because then he wouldn't need the iron key; every archmaester has one, according to the prologue, so they would hardly need to hire somebody at great expense to kill some poor novice and get one. The Alchemist is working on behalf of some outside force. Secondly, the key "supposedly opens any door in the Citadel," which means that the Alchemist is up to something in the Citadel specifically. Finally, it has to be something that would be worth the expense of hiring a Faceless Man. I see three basic options for his mission:
1) The Alchemist intends to kill a maester or archmaester, and needs the key to get easy access. But Marwyn is the only person in the Citadel who has been really established previously, and the Alchemist has spent months working his way into Marwyn's confidence and hasn't killed him. So that doesn't seem very satisfying.
2) The Alchemist needs to discover some ancient-yet-unspecified lore, to unknown ends. This seems unsatisfying too; instead of an assassin, the Alchemist would be more like an unusually violent grad student.
3) The Alchemist needs to wrap his hands on some forgotten artifact in the archives. But again, this suffers from the problem that there's been nothing said about any artifact potentially gathering dust in Oldtown. Book six seems like awfully late in the game to set up a new magical doohickey of great power.
Fortunately, GRRM has already established a magical doohickey of great power: the Horn of Winter. If the Alchemist were looking for the Horn of Winter so that he, or his employers, could bring down the Wall, where would he start? At the Citadel, where many old documents and artifacts would eventually gather. If some old maester hadn't left it to gather dust in the achives, then there could at least be something to point you in the right direction. And since there's a tiny conspiracy of people who would like to stop your employers from bringing about eternal winter, it makes sense to worm your way into their trust and keep an eye on them while you're looking. Marwyn is also the archmaester in charge of magical studies, so he might even know where it is.
Of course, the Citadel doesn't have the Horn of Winter. Mance doesn't either, although he claims he does; his horn is probably Valyrian-made (I'm basing this on the resemblance between it and Euron's horn, which _is_ Valyrian-made), and Valyria was never particularly interested in Westeros or the Wall. The Horn of Winter, according to popular opinion, is the broken horn that Jon discovered in A Clash of Kings and gave to Samwell Tarly. Sam, in turn, has brought it with him to Oldtown, and into the Alchemist's clutches.
So my prediction is that the Wall falls at the end of the Winds of Winter and it is all Sam's fault.
1) The Alchemist intends to kill a maester or archmaester, and needs the key to get easy access. But Marwyn is the only person in the Citadel who has been really established previously, and the Alchemist has spent months working his way into Marwyn's confidence and hasn't killed him. So that doesn't seem very satisfying.
2) The Alchemist needs to discover some ancient-yet-unspecified lore, to unknown ends. This seems unsatisfying too; instead of an assassin, the Alchemist would be more like an unusually violent grad student.
3) The Alchemist needs to wrap his hands on some forgotten artifact in the archives. But again, this suffers from the problem that there's been nothing said about any artifact potentially gathering dust in Oldtown. Book six seems like awfully late in the game to set up a new magical doohickey of great power.
Fortunately, GRRM has already established a magical doohickey of great power: the Horn of Winter. If the Alchemist were looking for the Horn of Winter so that he, or his employers, could bring down the Wall, where would he start? At the Citadel, where many old documents and artifacts would eventually gather. If some old maester hadn't left it to gather dust in the achives, then there could at least be something to point you in the right direction. And since there's a tiny conspiracy of people who would like to stop your employers from bringing about eternal winter, it makes sense to worm your way into their trust and keep an eye on them while you're looking. Marwyn is also the archmaester in charge of magical studies, so he might even know where it is.
Of course, the Citadel doesn't have the Horn of Winter. Mance doesn't either, although he claims he does; his horn is probably Valyrian-made (I'm basing this on the resemblance between it and Euron's horn, which _is_ Valyrian-made), and Valyria was never particularly interested in Westeros or the Wall. The Horn of Winter, according to popular opinion, is the broken horn that Jon discovered in A Clash of Kings and gave to Samwell Tarly. Sam, in turn, has brought it with him to Oldtown, and into the Alchemist's clutches.
So my prediction is that the Wall falls at the end of the Winds of Winter and it is all Sam's fault.
2007-10-20 07:43:43
I remember when the book was about to be released, about a year ago. JVJ had put the first chapter up on her website...and then the book's release got delayed. I read the first chapter again on her website, recently - and it had changed. There was a lot more backstory added, there was more description. I wonder if her publisher held the book and made her do a re-write to make it stronger.
Well, if they did, it was 100% worth it. I feel perfectly ok with the wait between the last book and this one.
JVJ really, really focuses in on characterization and dialogue in this one. Added to her plot and worldbuilding strengths, that makes this book pack a good punch.
Well, if they did, it was 100% worth it. I feel perfectly ok with the wait between the last book and this one.
JVJ really, really focuses in on characterization and dialogue in this one. Added to her plot and worldbuilding strengths, that makes this book pack a good punch.
2007-10-15 09:39:31
Hey, I'm planning on going to this one. Laura says she wants to come too. Anyone else game? Obviously, this is a con GRRM is scheduled to attend.
2007-10-15 06:08:57
New thread,
new detail.
(May have been mentioned before, though)
Did anyone notice Maggy the Frog is Jeyne Westerling's grandmother?
It's in ASoS. Tywin tells Tyrion the news why Robb Stark not marry a Frey, and then explains him a brief history of the Westerling family.
"Gawen (...) should never have married Sybel Spicer. Her grandfather (...) was almost as lowborn as Stannis' smuggler. And her grandmother was a woman he brought from the east. (...) Maegi, they called her. No man could pronounce her real name. Half of Lannisport came to her for drugs and love potions."
new detail.
(May have been mentioned before, though)
Did anyone notice Maggy the Frog is Jeyne Westerling's grandmother?
It's in ASoS. Tywin tells Tyrion the news why Robb Stark not marry a Frey, and then explains him a brief history of the Westerling family.
"Gawen (...) should never have married Sybel Spicer. Her grandfather (...) was almost as lowborn as Stannis' smuggler. And her grandmother was a woman he brought from the east. (...) Maegi, they called her. No man could pronounce her real name. Half of Lannisport came to her for drugs and love potions."
2007-10-14 16:01:26
All purpose organizing thread for BwB Norcal. We just got our Victorian drink on at Hobson's; what's our next get-together?
Teri had a great conversation recap near the end of the last thread right before it got closed. Figured I would import it over:
We stilldread eagerly await the coming of the event photos.
Teri had a great conversation recap near the end of the last thread right before it got closed. Figured I would import it over:
QUOTE(Teri)
Seeing as how I was one of the few who did not get drunk (partly due to wanting to have a safe drive home, and partly due to simply not liking sweet drinks like punch), I can remember most of the conversation. Topics included:
comparison of our high schools and our graduating classes
joys and trials being a teacher
FD's job
so cal regional fast food chains
comparison of the drug cultures of the eighties vs now
fantasy football (mostly Bronn and Bazz)
the mafia slow game (Kat, me and Bronn)
the whiteness of the BwB and theories on causes
the price of mojitos
the merits (or not) of karaoke bars
when and what gets you singing
babies, do you enjoy being around them?
being a stay-at-home dad
are there good looking women at sf/fantasy cons?
coyote's daughter's red dress (example of above)
teasing Kat about her state of inebriation
living arrangements (esp AG's and Lann's, also Bronn's)
Bazz's facial hair experiments
reactionary reappearance of 'glories of the domestic arts' propoganda
teasing drunk Kat some more (actually, insert this line between any topic change)
There were frequent brief references to NHAW, but perhaps surprisingly, it wasn't a subject of extended conversation, more just toss-away comments.
comparison of our high schools and our graduating classes
joys and trials being a teacher
FD's job
so cal regional fast food chains
comparison of the drug cultures of the eighties vs now
fantasy football (mostly Bronn and Bazz)
the mafia slow game (Kat, me and Bronn)
the whiteness of the BwB and theories on causes
the price of mojitos
the merits (or not) of karaoke bars
when and what gets you singing
babies, do you enjoy being around them?
being a stay-at-home dad
are there good looking women at sf/fantasy cons?
coyote's daughter's red dress (example of above)
teasing Kat about her state of inebriation
living arrangements (esp AG's and Lann's, also Bronn's)
Bazz's facial hair experiments
reactionary reappearance of 'glories of the domestic arts' propoganda
teasing drunk Kat some more (actually, insert this line between any topic change)
There were frequent brief references to NHAW, but perhaps surprisingly, it wasn't a subject of extended conversation, more just toss-away comments.
We still
2007-10-07 13:53:07
Anyway near the end it was hinted that the Citadel has been killing the Dragon's?
Anyway notice anything in any of the other books which might also hint to this?
[Edited by Ran: Though we're out of the spoiler period, we might avoid spoilerish info placed in titles.]
Anyway notice anything in any of the other books which might also hint to this?
[Edited by Ran: Though we're out of the spoiler period, we might avoid spoilerish info placed in titles.]
2007-10-06 11:29:24
The link:
Thoughts on this? I think many of you here already know my position on this, but I'll post and see what you make of this.
QUOTE
all the roary night
October 4th, 2007
Hi, I got your book. You ask me how to make it different.
Substitute imagination for exhaustiveness, and inventiveness for research. As a reader I’m not interested in a “fully worked out” world. I’m not interested in “self consistency”. I don’t care what kind of underpants Iberian troops wore in 1812, or if I do I can find out about it for myself. I don’t want the facts about the Silk Road or the collapse of the Greenland Colony, sugared up & presented in three-volumes as an imaginary world. I don’t want to be talked through your enthusiasm for costume. I don’t want be talked through anything.
When I read fantasy, I read for the bizarre, the wrenched, the undertone of difference & weirdness that defamiliarises the world I know. I want the taste of the writer’s mind, I want to feel I’m walking about in the edges of the individual personality. I don’t want to read a story misrepresented from some other culture’s folklore, or a story in which western political & economic thinking of the last fifty years is presented as a mythic truth. Go read Clive Barker. Go read Kenneth Patchen, who was reportedly an unlikeable man but who could write you a fantasy in a couple of lines. Or put “The Gates of Eden” on repeat.
Go away & write me a fantasy like that. Wait twenty years before you start. Write it out of some emotion of yours you never understood, or some decision you made you’re not sure if you regret; but never once name that emotion or let me see the decision. I want what’s underneath. Make it short. Remember the world never had a plot, & that there’s no difference between a “myth” & commuting to work, they’re just two really excellent ways of narrating the life out of life.
Tear this one up, & start again with that very good sentence from p50, “I didn’t know what was happening.”
Of course it’s only my opinion. But that’s what you asked for.
October 4th, 2007
Hi, I got your book. You ask me how to make it different.
Substitute imagination for exhaustiveness, and inventiveness for research. As a reader I’m not interested in a “fully worked out” world. I’m not interested in “self consistency”. I don’t care what kind of underpants Iberian troops wore in 1812, or if I do I can find out about it for myself. I don’t want the facts about the Silk Road or the collapse of the Greenland Colony, sugared up & presented in three-volumes as an imaginary world. I don’t want to be talked through your enthusiasm for costume. I don’t want be talked through anything.
When I read fantasy, I read for the bizarre, the wrenched, the undertone of difference & weirdness that defamiliarises the world I know. I want the taste of the writer’s mind, I want to feel I’m walking about in the edges of the individual personality. I don’t want to read a story misrepresented from some other culture’s folklore, or a story in which western political & economic thinking of the last fifty years is presented as a mythic truth. Go read Clive Barker. Go read Kenneth Patchen, who was reportedly an unlikeable man but who could write you a fantasy in a couple of lines. Or put “The Gates of Eden” on repeat.
Go away & write me a fantasy like that. Wait twenty years before you start. Write it out of some emotion of yours you never understood, or some decision you made you’re not sure if you regret; but never once name that emotion or let me see the decision. I want what’s underneath. Make it short. Remember the world never had a plot, & that there’s no difference between a “myth” & commuting to work, they’re just two really excellent ways of narrating the life out of life.
Tear this one up, & start again with that very good sentence from p50, “I didn’t know what was happening.”
Of course it’s only my opinion. But that’s what you asked for.
Thoughts on this? I think many of you here already know my position on this, but I'll post and see what you make of this.
2007-10-03 15:16:11
I understand that Littlefinger has risen very quickly to the top tier of Lords in a very short time, but by having Little Lord Robert die, Harry becomes the Lod of the Erie, therefore Littlefinger loses someof his hold...am I correct. Granted he is still Lord of Harrenhall, why does he do this favor for Sansa? It seems a large favor even if he was/is in love with Cat. has his main goal been to gain support for the Starks after their fall from power, except to put this power in the hands of a girl who he can manipulate?
Thank you in advance!!
Thank you in advance!!
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