A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE

Just wanted to point out to folks that Bantam Spectra have just put up their listing for Republic of Thieves ( as well as Dance with Dragons), it's up for August 26th.

http://www.amazon.com/Republic-Thieves-Sco...8499&sr=1-2

I found the synopsis as well:

http://www.forbiddenplanet.com/Signings.html

Mr. Abercrombie is doing a signing 20th March in Forbidden Planet London. I was just wandering if anyone would like to meet up for this. I haven't seen the BwB Londoners for ages and thought I'd risk showing my face again.

There now, that was short and to the point.

Thread 1

Have at it! I love reading all the ideas.

*giggles*

So, what if anything do you have signed by the great Mr. Martin.

Stories to go along with the signature would be great.

Alas, I have never met him personally but I did buy from him while he was selling on Ebay. I came across one of his auctions (1st print of "Fever Dream" and "Portraits of Children") and in the listing the seller stated that for no extra charge the book could be signed and inscribed. This had me curios so I wrote the seller and asked how he was going to get them signed, I asked if he knew the author or something. I got an email back with a smiley attached stating that "I am the author". I went right to Ebay and checked the user I.D. of the seller (should have done that from the start) it was GRRM. My jaw hit the floor. It took about 1 nano second for me to purchase the books. I had them signed and inscribed. I kept all the emails and have them with the books.



My signed collection:

Rretrospective: Signed and #251

Portraits of His Children: First edition Signed and inscribed; "To James, With all good wishes. George R.R. Martin"

Fever Dream: First edition signed and inscribed; "To James, keep your steam up. George R.R. Martin" (I like this one the most)



Well, thats all I got but they are the highlight of my collection. What if any do you guys have.

I did have the chance a year or so ago to get the first 2 super rare signed and lettered A.S.o.I.a.F. books with the rights to the rest but I did not have the 1,100.00 to spare at the time. I kick myself in the arse all the time over that brilliant move. Oh well.

I put this here instead of in the General forums because I'm afraid it might induce conversations that would spoil pre-Crows readers.

I'm sure there are experts on the topic well beyond my knowledge, but when doing a bit of surface research for a completely unrelated project I came across an article summarizing Ragnarok and noticed some striking similarities between its mythos and the prophecies of A Song of Ice and Fire. I've added emphasis to several parts.



Taking the serpent as metaphor for Dany, and considering the horn, the one-handed hero, and the general feeling that all of Westeros is headed to hell in a hand basket, I think there's a good chance that this could be a source of inspiration behind the series.

There's also a chance that I'm taking this completely out of context to fit my idea.

has anyone else finished this?

The first book wasnt my favorite, and i stopped reading it for several months, but at the end it wasnt so bad. I thought the second book was a lot better and i looked forward to the conclusion, but.... ugh.

i think i know what i didnt like. First person isnt a terrible way to write/read a book. I got used to it. but the third book sees the main character 'disembodied(?)' from himself - he is just a thought process stuck in the back of his own mind - for i think the entire book. i cant even explain... its likeyou are writing down what your memories remember. ITS BORING. so bloody boring. i skipped paragraphs, at times. every single chapter was the same. "i hate what i have become and i cant stop myself andi want to so badly and omg i love lisana and epiny and i want to die kinda but i want my friends to live.' the ending, which i kind of enjoyed, had ZERo to do with the magic/speck plot. the only parts of this i really enjoyed were about Nevare's family and friends.

im glad its over and cant wit to read her next Six Duchy novel(s).

The last thread got closed because it was too much awesomeness all in one place, methinks.

Summary (I think)

Jon and boiled leather want to do karaoke next weekend (Feb 2), Superbowl be damned.

FD, I think, would prefer not to.

AG and DVD.....? (I think would prefer not to do karaoke in the first place.)

Bazzlebane doesn't care because he's too busy for us anyway.

I don't really care because I don't watch football anyway.

So, yeah. That's about it.

Our custom frame order came home from Michaels today. Bran and Robert and Rhaegar FINALLY have professional frames.

Have a look at our geeky living room!

The Wall

Bran Climbs by Jamie Simms

This is the original painting (you can see the image in Jamie's portfolio here) that we purchased from the art show at LA Worldcon in 2006. We've had him hanging up in a do-it-yourself frame for some time, because it was a shame not to display an original painting. But he looks so much better this way!!

Robert and Rhaegar on the Trident

Even though they should be on horseback, this is still a really awesome picture. But it's even more awesome now!

Future Plans

This is where Ned and Sansa are going to go, once they get framed. They're 18x24, so that's a standard size... but a tight budget is a harsh mistress. It'll happen though!

This link will take you to the press release page, which then has another link for all the genre categories. In addition to choosing Patrick Rothfuss's The Name of the Wind as their #1 choice, in a .doc file, the other finalists include quite a few impressive 2007 releases for Fantasy (SF is separate):

Fantasy:

Bull, Emma. Territory. Tor, 2007. 978-0312857356

Butcher, Jim. White Night. ROC/Penguin, 2007. 978-0451461407

Carey, Jacqueline. Kushiel’s Justice. Warner, 2007. 978-0446500036

Carey, Mike. The Devil You Know. Warner, 2007. 978-0446580304

Durham, David. Acacia. Doubleday, 2007. 978-038550609

Ferrari, Mark. Book of Joby. Tor, 2007. 978-0765316868

Fforde, Jasper. First Among Sequels. Viking, 2007. 978-0670038718

Kay, Guy Gavriel. Ysabel. ROC/Penguin, 2007. 978-0451461292

Kiernan, Caitlin. Daughter of Hounds. Roc, 2007. 978-0451461254

Lynch, Scott. Red Seas Under Red Skies. Bantam Spectra, 2007. 978-0553804683

Moers, Walter. City of Dreaming Books. Overlook, 2007. 978-1585678990

Monette, Sarah and Elizabeth Bear. A Companion to Wolves. Tor, 2007.
978-0765318169

Novik, Naomi. Empire of Ivory. Del Rey, 2007. 978-0345496874

Pratchett, Terry. Making Money. Harper, 2007. 978-006082217

Rowling, J. K. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. Scholastic, 2007.
978-0545010221

Tolkien, J. R. R. Children of Hurin. Houghton Mifflin, 2007. 978-0618894642

Valente, Catherynne. In the Cities of Coin and Spice. Bantam Spectra, 2007.
978-0353384048


Science Fiction:

Gibson, William. Spook Country. G. P. Putnam’s Sons, 2007. 978-0399154300

Kenyon, Kay. Bright of Sky. Pyr, 2007. 978-1591025412

Mackay, Scott. Phytosphere. New American Library, 2007. 978-0451461582

McDonald, Ian. Brasyl. Pyr, 2007. 978-1591025436

Morgan, Richard. Thirteen. Del Rey/Ballantine, 2007. 978-0345485250

Sawyer, Robert J. Rollback. Tor, 2007. 978-0765311085

Scalzi, John. The Last Colony. Tor, 2007. 978-0765316974

Van Name, Mark L. One Jump Ahead. Baen, 2007. 978-1416520856

Wilson, Robert Charles. Axis. Tor, 2007. 978-0765348265

Jim Butcher's Dresden Files "Welcome to the Jungle" Issue #1 Order Form:
http://www.dabelbrothers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=732

If you plan on buying the issue from your local comic book retailer, print out this form and bring it to them so that they can order and reserve a copy for you. Not sure where the find a comic book retailer near you? Go to http://csls.diamondcomics.com/ and fill in your zip code

George R.R. Martin's Wild Cards "The Hard Call" Issue #1 Order Form:
http://www.dabelbrothers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=734

If you plan on buying the issue from your local comic book retailer, print out this form and bring it to them so that they can order and reserve a copy for you. Not sure where the find a comic book retailer near you? Go to http://csls.diamondcomics.com/ and fill in your zip code

I thought that this article from today's Guardian would amuse a lot of people here in the light of recent debates on the site.



The whole thing is amusing and worth the read.

Some authors are able to win fame on their debut, while others slowly work on their reputation for decades before they finally "make it". Reading GRRM's Dreamsongs gave me the realization that he simply published short stories for a long time, slowly building up his career, but he seemed to do these things in sci-fi/fantasy magazines that I am assuming are no longer in publication. How does an aspiring writer now adays go about publishing short stories?

I've was just reading through my new copy of A Feast for Crows and I began to read the Alyana (Sansa) Chapter where they are descending the Eyrie for the Gates of the Moon. In it Maester Coleman spoke of giving Robert to much Sweetmilk (I think) as it is bad for the body. It of course leads onto saying about Harry the Heir. But Littlefinger spoke about "When Robert dies"

Now this got me thinking could Littlefinger be poisoning the boy with this stuff to make it look like he is only looking after the little Sweetrobin?

As always happens at this time of year, the Horror Writers Association releases its short list of the novels, short-stories etc. that are eligible to win the Stoker Award. I haven't read a single one of them, but since I do have a vote, I can expect to receive a lot of them for free (or at least as downloads) in the near future.

Has anybody encountered any of the following books? Would you recommend them?

STOKER PRELIMINARY BALLOT LIST

Superior Achievement in a Novel

The Guardener's Tale by Bruce Boston (Sam's Dot)
Mr. Hands by Gary Braunbeck (Leisure)
Generation Loss by Elizabeth Hand (Small Beer Press)
Heart-Shaped Box by Joe Hill (William Morrow)
Ghoul by Brian Keene (Leisure) The Missing by Sarah Langan (Harper)
Dead Man's Song by Jonathan Maberry (Pinnacle)
The Midnight Road by Tom Piccirilli (Bantam)
The Terror by Dan Simmons (Little, Brown)
The Dust of Wonderland by Lee Thomas (Alyson Books)

Superior Achievement in a First Novel

I Will Rise by Michael Calvillo (Lachesis Publishing)
Heart-Shaped Box by Joe Hill (William Morrow)
The Memory Tree by John R. Little (Nocturne Press)
Dying to Live by Kim Paffenroth (Permuted Press)
The Hollower by Mary SanGiovanni (Leisure Books)
Vacation by Jeremy Shipp (Raw Dog Screaming Press)
Roses of Blood on Barbwire Vines by D. L. Snell (Permuted Press)

This Q&A was a long time in coming, but it's worth the wait!

Way back when, Larry pointed out that Bakker's answer to M. John Harrison's worldbuilding bit would be memorable. He was right!

I would like to dedicate this one Calibandar. God knows he's been gunning for this interview for a long, long time!

Check it out on the blog!

Cheers,

Patrick

In the AFFC prologue, Jaqen assumes the identity of Pate by "melting" Pate. So from that information it follows that Faceless Men must kill the person they take the identity of. That leaves us with a few questions.

Could "Syrio Forel" have yielded to Meryn Trant and taken the identity of Jaqen in the dungeons? It certainly seems possible.

Who did Jaqen "melt" to take the identity of The Alchemist?

Is it possible Arya will get her sight back through "melting" someone? And if so, will Arya as we know her die?

This one's a little different--a verse novel about werewolves! Anyways, here's my review for Toby Barlow's debut novel "Sharp Teeth". It's been released in the UK for a while now so I'd love to hear someone else's opinion:

"Just last month I REVIEWED Charlie Huston’s Joe Pitt novels which I absolutely loved. I mean the blending of hard-boiled crime noir with urban fantasy, the incredible Quentin Tarantino-like dialogue, the author’s unique take on vampires, the stylized violence, the kinetic energy of the books…I had never read anything quite like them and didn’t think I would again until the next Charlie Huston novel. Then along comes Toby Barlow’s “Sharp Teeth”…

Available in the UK since August, “Sharp Teeth” is making its North American debut this January and is the first novel by Toby Barlow—an executive creative director at the advertising agency JWT (MTV, Ford, Shell), a contributor to the literary magazine n+1 and the Huffington Post, and creator of the Billy Collins Action Poetry series.

Let me cut straight to the point. If you’re a fan of Charlie Huston’s works, especially his Joe Pitt casebooks, then you’re going to want to check out Mr. Barlow’s “Sharp Teeth”. Like the Joe Pitt novels, “Sharp Teeth” features a cathartic mix of pulp fiction noir and the supernatural; it’s edgy, bloody & stylish; and the book reads almost like a novella—short & snappy. Of course, it also has its differences—lycanthropes (werewolves) instead of vampires; Los Angeles instead of New York; multiple point-of-views in place of the first-person; and so on. These aren’t your everyday werewolves either by the way. Shape shifting has nothing to do with the lunar cycle; infection doesn’t happen because of a bite; and you don’t transform into a two-legged monster with an unstoppable craving for human flesh. Instead, lycanthropes turn into dogs—a little larger than the average canine with a hint of wolfish traits—complete with a pack mentality that includes alpha males & females. Even in this, the author shakes things up a little bit with differing philosophies like the path of the Ukan which relies on abstinence and tension.

Perhaps the most significant distinction of all though is the unorthodox format. In short, “Sharp Teeth” is a verse novel. If you’re thinking along the lines of Homer’s the Iliad/Odyssey, Beowulf or The Canterbury Tales, think again. While the book resonates with beautiful language, evocative metaphors & similes, and various other poetic nuances, it’s still prose. For example:

So get this straight
it’s not the full moon.
That’s as ancient and ignorant as any myth.
The blood just quickens with a thought
a discipline develops
so that one can self-ignite
reshaping form, becoming something rather more canine
still conscious, a little hungrier.
It’s a raw muscular power,
a rich sexual energy
and the food tastes a whole lot better.

For me, it didn’t take very long to get used to the different approach, but I have to admit that I was a bit worried at how certain aspects of the novel might be handled like the characterization. Fortunately, that was a non-issue. In fact, the cast—which includes pack leader Lark, a dogcatcher who falls in love with a werewolf, the nameless female who falls in love with a dogcatcher, Officer Peabody, Mr. Venable, Annie, and various other personalities—are what drive the novel. After all, despite a noir-esque plot that involves three rival packs of lycanthropes, drug dealers, disappearing dogcatchers, a one-armed man, dogfighting and a curious cop—resulting in plenty of sharp turns, remarkable coincidences, and spine-chilling bloodshed—“Sharp Teeth” is a surprisingly profound and astute novel that explores such universal themes as love, loneliness and loyalty…

That’s what love does.
It chases the dragons away
before their claws can sink in.

As much as “Sharp Teeth” impressed me, I have to admit that it’s not perfect. Towards the end of the book the story starts to lose its kick and ventures into more conventional territory; the lack of information about the lycanthropes’ history was a bit disappointing; and a few pieces never come together like a bridge tournament and kennels that were part of Lark’s original plan. Still, between the originality of the presentation, the refreshing slant on werewolves, a healthy dose of black humor, and a story that’s as wily as it is soulful, it’s pretty easy to get excited by everything that “Sharp Teeth” has to offer. Not to mention the book is self-contained with enough pieces in place for a sequel . In the end, Toby Barlow’s remarkable first novel is one of the few debuts whose bite is as sharp as its bark…"

Meant to post this a while ago, but forgot. Anyways, "Thunderer" a fantasy debut that was released at the end of 2007 and I really loved it. Haven't seen anyone else talk about it though, so here's my review below. Feel free to discuss:

"Is it too early to be discussing the Best Fantasy Debut of 2008? Not necessarily. There’s already a pretty strong buzz surrounding Orion/Gollancz’s “The Red Wolf Conspiracy” by Robert V.S. Redick, Jonathan Barnes’ “The Somnambulist” is making its US debut in February, and there are a few other titles starting to build their cases. Into that mix I’d like to throw in Felix Gilman’s “Thunderer”. Though technically a 2007 release (December 26th), the novel will probably get its strongest marketing push in the New Year and deservedly so.

Before expanding on that, I’d like to thank Jeff VanderMeer for the heads up on Mr. Gilman’s debut—not only did Jeff mention it on his website HERE and conducted the author’s first-ever interview HERE, but he also praises the book pretty generously along with fellow writers Brandon Sanderson, Tobias S. Buckell, Drew Bowling and David Keck. One caveat Jeff mentions though is the cover art. In my opinion, the artwork is somewhat generic and doesn’t really help the novel stand out from other fantasies, but before you judge the book by its cover alone let me just remind you that it’s what’s on the inside that counts

Another thing worth noting is how the book opens. To put it briefly, Felix Gilman tries to kick off “Thunderer” with an exciting flourish, introducing readers to the legendary city of Ararat just as the Bird-God is making its long-awaited return, bestowing its magical gifts throughout the city. Unfortunately, the execution is a bit clumsy as the narrative jumps from one point-of-view to the next with haphazard glimpses of the book’s main players before culminating with the mighty warship Thunderer capturing and harnessing the power of the Bird-God for itself. From there, the story takes a little detour, revisiting the past of Arjun Dvanda Atyava and explaining his reason for journeying to Ararat in the first place. It wasn’t until about page 40, that Felix really started to find his groove as a writer and from that point on, it was nearly impossible to tear myself away from the pages. So just a warning—“Thunderer” may suffer from a somewhat rough beginning, but once the story gets going readers will be duly rewarded.

On that note, what an interesting concoction Mr. Gilman has conjured up! First, we have the aforementioned Arjun—a devout member of the Choristry which served the Voice through song and music—who has come to Ararat in search of their missing god, and in the process, unwittingly unleashes a damaged deity that could spell doom for the entire city. Then there’s Jack Sheppard who uses the Bird-God’s return to escape from his workhouse prison, returning to his former life as a street-kid where he discovers that he’s been blessed with amazing powers and starts up a gang—the Thunderers—in the name of freedom. Arlandes meanwhile, is serving Countess Ilona as the captain of the most powerful weapon in the city, but his promotion is marked by the death of his young bride Lucia who was killed during the Thunderer’s awakening. In addition to these main narratives, we also have supporting characters Professor Holbach and lawyer Olympia whose roles are important in tying together the many different subplots, which also includes an Atlas, censorship and revolution. Lastly, but perhaps most importantly, there is Ararat—a sacred city of a thousand gods and a thousand lords whose very fabric is ever-changing. It is a city that is unmappable and some say, infinite. And for me, it was easily the most fascinating character in the book blending Victorian influences (guns, typewriters, gas lighting, chapbooks, noble politics, et cetera) with astonishing mythology such as a thousand-year old pillar of fire, a spider god whose servants worship a lottery, the Iron Rose mechanical prison, and a man who sells imprisoned gods. There’s much more to Ararat than that but readers will definitely want to experience the city for their own.

In addition to the Victorian-like setting and chaotic menagerie of gods & religions, an assortment of other flavors can also be found in “Thunderer”. For instance, during Arjun’s narrative the book sometimes delves into Lovecraftian gothic-horror territory when dealing with the river-god Typhon. At other times, “Thunderer” adopts an adventurous spirit akin to H.G. Wells or Jules Verne and even ventures occasionally into the realm of ‘weird fiction’ (China Miéville, Steph Swainston). When reading Jack’s POV, it’s impossible not to see the Peter Pan references and the Dickens theme is also recognizable. And towards the end, I was reminded of Neil Gaiman and such anime movies as “Spirited Away” and “Howl’s Moving Castle”. In short, there’s a bunch of different parts that make up “Thunderer”, but the first-time author is skilled enough to not only make it all work, but delivers the book with an impressive blend of detailed worldbuilding, unconventional plotting—several times I was surprised by the direction Felix took the story; a memorable cast of characters, and wonderfully polished prose.

About the only thing I can see going against “Thunderer”, aside from the cover and the weak beginning, is that the book is hard to classify. I mean is it epic or high fantasy? Urban fantasy? Weird fiction? Gothic horror? Dickensian? To be honest, I’m not sure how I would describe Felix Gilman’s novel but I think that’s a large part of its appeal. Because if you give the book a chance, you’ll discover more than just a living, breathing world full of marvelous and horrific wonders at every turn; a plot that is at once familiar, yet unpredictable and entertaining; and characters that dramatically evolve right up to the novel’s triumphant finish. What ”Thunderer” offers is an experience that’s not quite like any other fantasy novel out there, and for those that take the plunge, I think you’ll agree with me that Felix Gilman’s first novel deserves to be included in the debate for Best Fantasy Debut of the Year, whether it’s for 2007 or 2008…"

For excerpts and whanot, click HERE. Btw, I actually just finished "The Red Wolf Conspiracy" and in my opinion "Thunderer" is a little better...

I just had a thought about something. After the Blackfyre rebellion, when Baelor, Maekar, and Bloodraven crushed Daemon Blackfyre's host and killed him and both his sons, Bittersteel took up the fallen Blackfyre, attacked Bloodraven putting out his eye, and then basically fled to the eastern continent and started a mercenary band. Now, assuming one of Bittersteel's descendants is the head of the Golden Company now, would it not also be logical to assume he wields the sword Blackfyre? Following that train of thought, however, wouldn't this Bittersteel descendant NOT want to support Danerys, descendant King Dareon, who Blackfyre loyalists believed was the false king? Wouldn't they dispute Dany's claim to the throne?

Now if in the past century Bittersteel's descendants became not quite so bitter towards Targaryens do you think they would hand over Blackfyre to Dany as her birthright, since she is the rightful Dragonqueen? That's what prompted this train of though, but then it occured to me that, considering Bittersteel's personal history, his descendants might not be too keen on just giving away their awesome family sword.


On another, slightly unrelated, note; does anyone know whatever happened to Dark Sister? Last I heard Bloodraven wielded it when he fought against Bittersteel at the Redgrass field, but what happened to it after that?

I've been reading that dead Russian guy (I put "fun" in "bigotry") and I've been wondering if the translator is a good one.
Is Constance Garnett any good, or should I go look for someone else?

So, I re-read the Dany chapters this weekend.

Dany waltzes into Meereen and immediately orders 171 executions and a fairly large (but unspecified) number of amputations and, um, dismemberments.

Can you imagine if she was a Stark? She’d have to do it all herself. Yikes!!





PS. I realize that this is technically about ASOS.

There's been a lot of discussion about the newcomers to the epic Fantasy genre in the last two years, and these names have been mentioned often. I'd like to do a poll of sorts and see how people actually rate them when compared to one another. Obviously you don't have to make a top 5 if you haven't read them all.

So how would you rank them?

I'd go with:

1) Abercrombie
2) Lynch
3) Rothfuss
4) Ruckley
5) Abraham

tadwilliams.com

Tad Williams' new website is finally live. There is also a new message board, although most of the old messages from the Shadowmarch site have been migrated to the new board. The site has a brand-new layout and lots of new and shiny content. Including a wealth of info about Tad's upcoming projects.

Lots of people seem to think that fantasy is juvenile. Most literature critics refuse to acknowledge fantasy as proper 'literature'. Do you think that there's a reason for this? I personally think that there is some justification for it, as lots of fantasy readers seem to be unable to identify good writing and can rarely explain well why they like a certain book. I've read comments like 'Oh, dude, that guy kicked ass!' and 'Man, that was a great scene' hundreds of times (mostly from Bulgarian fantasy readers as I often check the website of Bulgaria's foremost fantasy publisher - Bard), but I rarely spot intelligent remarks about a certain fantasy book. This may be a bit of a generalization, but it seems to me that a lot of fantasy readers like to read about kickass heroes, hot chicks, dragons, etc. but are not educated well enough to appreciate classic literature, for instance. What's your take on this issue?

The speech Septon Meribald gives to Brienne about Broken Men sounded a little off to me. Bloody fights happen and peasant smallfolk are recruited to fight in them but the way he describes it they spend the rest of their lives fighting. How is this possible? For example in the Dunk and Egg story Sworn Sword Dunk trains some volunteer smallfolk to fight. They go to confront their rival neighbor and that is the end of it. There is no string of endless fights.

I imagine most fights are local like the one in Sworn Sword and they are limited in duration if not. Most lords spend their lives on their own lands. They can't leave their homes unattended (or defended) and any smallfolk recruits they take would likewise return.

There are precious few professional army bands in Westeros that live an army life for long periods. A few Sellswords companies, men like Gregor Clegane's men and the Gold Cloaks. The rest of the armies are temporary levies that spend most of their times in their homes and castles. Even the professional fighters a lord has (which are a different class than peasant recruits) spend their lives within his castle not traveling a war strewn land where they have no home.

The kingdom has good safe roads so even if they had to travel far from their homes they should be able to go back if they are separated from their company. Is Meribald misleading us?

I failed on 3 reads so far. One crime fiction, one fantasy and one horror/romance.

Now I settled in and in a mental cuddle easy chair with some Philip Dick - Man in the High Tower.

Man this dude could write eh?

Can anyone point me to a thread discussing Qyburn's use of women in his work on UnGregor, or is that just a presumption?

Qyburn is evil, as evil in his own way as Rorge and Biter perhaps. Have we figured out what he needed the women for? Surely UnGregor doesn't need top have sex.

http://www.zubisrises.com/excerpts.asp

I invite you to have a look at this site. It contains the prologue and opening chapter of a new book which has become available for download.



Of course I have an ulterior motive, my cousin runs the site and wrote the book but click on it anyway


Be honest now, what do you think?

I've noticed a curious fact on this board and I wanted to start a thread to discuss it. Most people have been tendning to refer to the followers of the Many Faced God as cultists in a cult. This is very intriguing to me, because followers of R'hollor and followers of the 7 of Westeros are both (seemingly) considered by most people to be religions. What makes those two groups "religions" and the faceless men into a "cult"? I study history and I'm particularly interested in dynamics between different religions so this is really interesting to me.

I do not want to start a thread that contains the argument that "All organized religions are cults" because that, while it can be considered true when examining most data, is a totally different argument.

Im just curious to find out why people here are referring to the faceless men as cultists as opposed to religious devotees? What makes them any more cult-like than the 7, or the red priests?

Hi again.

Well, I can see why my last W.o.T thread got closed. It was all over the place, no structure what so ever and there was allot of fighting.

I was told that I could start a new one for E.o.t.W. and that seems to make more sense. This thread is only for this book and I would still appreciate limited spoilers. I read the first 2 books years ago but I blew through them so fast I missed much and remember even less.

I do have a question. If they reveal this latter and telling me know would be a huge spoiler please don't answer but I am confused about something.

Before Rand and his group leave there town Rand had a dream (or vision) of a town with great white towers, no matter which way he turned everything he did led back to the castle (towers). He goes to the door and knocks and when it is opened a myrddraal opens the door and says that they have been waiting for him. Rand wakes up. Now in the next chapter Moiraine tells the townsfolk about there peoples history. She explains how they used to be bad ass and how they fought in great wars and had to hurry home to defend there own land against a sneak attack. During this story she describes a city on a mountain with great white towers that was destroyed buy a woman who unleashed too much of the one power and in turn she destroyed the city as well as most of the attackers. My question is was this the same place that Rand visited in his dream/vision.

I would like to nominate:

-Terry Pratchett (fantasy)

-Douglas Adams (sci-fi)

-Ephraim Kishon (non-fiction)

Your favourites?

The world of ASoIaF is full of bloodshed and betrayal and yet has its share (though not a whole lot) of kind or 'feelgood' moments

Which feelgood moment did you like best?

I liked when Bran & Co. encounter the member of a minor house sworn to the Starks and he leaves them food and Bran swears to himself that the man will be rewarded

Sorry for not being very specific but I haven't read the series in awhile

Hello.

I was wondering if any of you had read Dragon's Winter and its sequel, Dragon's Treasure, by Elizabeth A. Lynn.
It is my understanding that she is well respected within the genre, though probably not as well known as she deserves to be.
One thing is certain - she can not be called prolific.

Besides welcoming any conversation on either of these sparse, lyrical books, I was wondering if any of you had knowledge as to when the third book in the series will be published (or if there is one at all). No amount of internet research on my part seems to turn up anything worthwhile.

Haven't seen anything like that there, so I thought why not start one
I've been really into historical fiction latelly, trouble is that my Uni library cathegorizes fiction by a country of origin, not by a genre, so it's pretty hard to find these things
So perhaps you people could give me some clues, titles, authors etc.
Myself, I'm reading Mikael (known in English as The Adventurer/Wanderer AFAIK) by Mika Valtari. It's fun, non-pretentious, old-style adventure book, quite good on history too.
And opinions on Roman and Egyptian series by this author?

I'm a big fan of Oscar Wilde's plays. I actually read them for fun, not for school, and perhaps that's one of the reasons why I really enjoyed them. I also enjoyed very much reading and studying Oedipus Rex and Antigone. Sadly (or maybe not), the only Shakespeare play I've read is Hamlet. But I have read Faust by Goethe and I loved it. Have you got any favourite plays and playwrights?

Danny has shown herself to be fairly pragmatic on the idea of marriage, but she is also strongly moral.

She might marry Euron because of his horn and blackmail, and we presume he is the Dread guy in the prophecy.

I don't think she marries Victorian unless he can deliver the horn. He also likely knows at this point that nobody can use the horn, except probably Danny as it seems to be a dragon based artifact involving fire. Perhaps he lies about that.

So, from the Ironborn camp, we have Victorian or possibly Euron.

Barristan will tell her about the Ironborn and she will immediatley hate them. Thralls, raiding, raping, killing. They represent the worst of what she disliked about the Dothraki. But, they have ships, lots of ships. Nobody else is getting her people over to Westeros. This will be a heavy motivator. She was probably willing to marry Xaro or whatever his name was in Quarth if he would have given her ships, but not if it cost her a dragon.

Quentyn Martell. He is of an age with her I think and she will be positively disposed towards the Martells right out of the gate. Does she need to marry Quentyn to get Dorne? As far as she knows, probably; in reality, no. Dorne is primed for war, the people are pissed. Dorne seems a little different than the rest of the Westeros commoners who mostly doesn't care what's going on with the nobles unless it affects their world somehow. In Dorne, all the evidence suggests that the entire realm was pissed about Elia, and is extremely pissed about the Red Viper, the nobility and the commoners. They would join Danny no matter what, but she doesn't know that.

Connington's kid in the Golden company. Who cares? What does he bring? A mercanary company? She's got one of those already, and it won't win her Westeros, or add appreciably to the forces available to her in Westeros. So, unless the speculation about him being Aegon is true, which she will be very unlikely to accept quite frankly, then what's the impetus here?

Anybody from the East. I don't think she will seriously consider any other candidate from the East.

That's her choices from the end of ADWD I think. Does she make a choice there? Is the Iron Fleet even there by the end? If we see them in ADWD it won't be until late.

I am a little confused as to how this whole trial thing will work with Cersei and Margery.

When Cersei first sees Margery after the latter has been incarcerated, Marg seems to heavily imply that her champion would have to fight Kettleback, who is the accuser.

There are several problems with this from an ethical perspective, but if these people of the faith believe that the champion of the righteous will always win because of divine guidance, then a lot of those problems fall away.

These problems obviously include the one Margery raised, in that none of the remaining Kingsguard can beat Kettleback, save perhaps Oakheart, but Margery doesn't raise him as a possibility. But if she had true faith, which the High Septon has, then she should believe that her champion will always win if she is innocent.

Leaving that aside, Kettleback has retracted against Margery and is now accusing Cersei instead.

The Blue Bard is likely the only witness who could stand up to "confession" and remain against Margery.

The only factual evidence the Faith has against Margery is that her hymen is not intact. Well, even in those days they must know about riding and so on. With evidence that the Tyrells, Willas in particular are into horses, it is not unreasonable to assume that Margery herself has been doing some heavy riding for most of her post infant life. However, weighing this against the fact that she has been married to Renly (she obviously didn't sleep with Joff) she may have lost her virginity there as well, which would not have been illegal according to the Faith.

In any case, who are the two sides in Margery's trial?

Cersei and Margery have basically switched places regarding the Kettleback v. other Kingsguard issue.

Let's just, for the record, say that I don't think the small council, Tommen, or Jaime is going to allow for the appointment of UnGregor to the Kingsguard, even if they do discover the open position.

I don't see how we get to a Margery v. Cersei battle in any logical way and I hope that doesn't happen.

Can someone help me out here? I just can't wrap my mind around what would happen if everything went according to how the High Septon envisions the proceedings.

In some cases I'm going by what people said four or five months back, so if you want moving around the list let me know.

DEFINITE
Anubiel (Friday to Monday)
Balder's Bane/Iceman (Friday to Sunday)
Conor (Friday to Saturday)
Isis (Thursday to Sunday)
MAAALT! (Thursday to Sunday)
Mormont
Niamh (whenever)
Paddy
Padraig (Thursday to Sunday or Monday)
Peadar (Friday to Sunday)
Regina & Fenryng (Friday to Monday)
Sean & Silanah (Friday to Saturday maybe)
Ser Mel T
Tenalpia (Thursday to Monday)
Werthead
Williamjm (Thursday to Monday)
Zollo (Thursday to Monday)
Zak & Needle (Thursday to Sunday)

PROBABLE
Mo
The Stranger

MAYBE
Filippa
Korax
Luzifer's Right Hand
Slick Mongoose
Ten Minute Timer
Tomfoster
ants

NOT COMING
Derfel Cadarn
Dunhallym
Maid Sansa
Vestrit

Greetings, fellow GRRM fans!

I'm orchestrating a residential move and change, so I'm forced to sell off a great number of my collector's items, including the Game of Thrones RPG manual I've coveted for over 3 years now. I purchased it from the now defunct Guardians of Order.

Of course, the manual is in mint condition (as is all my hobby items). I haven't played a game with it, nor have I read through it thoroughly; I purchased it as a collector's item and so it's neither worn nor abused, but here are photos nevertheless:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/Jarlaxlemd/Dsc01738.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/Jarlaxlemd/DSC00687.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/Jarlaxlemd/DSC00688.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/Jarlaxlemd/DSC00689.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/Jarlaxlemd/DSC00690.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/Jarlaxlemd/DSC00691.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/Jarlaxlemd/Dsc01739.jpg

Please do not hesitate to PM me if you're interested. Much thanks to Mormont for his help and for being gracious enough to allow me to post this ad.

Just wanted to mention an article that I recently posted HERE. Basically, I wanted to see what speculative fiction authors thought were their favorite books of 2007, as well as update readers on what they have going on in 2008 and any titles they are personally looking forward to. So, what I did was contact almost 150 authors of fantasy, science fiction, horror, etc., and a little over forty responded, resulting in what I thought was a pretty cool feature So, feel free check to it out and share any thoughts...

I think if someone had to choose the "main hero" for ASOIAF, it would be Bran. This assumes that the war for the dawn will be the climax of the entire series. A fair assumption, I think.

Before I really get started, let me touch on who I consider the other "heroes", secondary heroes if you will.

Daenerys
She appears to be Azor Ahai Reborn/the princess that was promised. She will definitely fight in the war for the dawn with Lightbringer, in the form of her dragons woken from stone.

Jon
Obvious since he is LC of the NW.

Now Bran
Mainly the idea that he will fight and lead the war for the dawn comes from three sources. One is the story of the Last Hero, which Bran seems to be imitating. He fought the Others in the Long Night until he got help from the Children of the Forest. Bran seems to be going to learn to be a greenseer from the Children (that is what I think the three-eyed crow is, a CotF greenseer). Also, there is Bran's coma dream. I will quote it here.

Bran saw the heart of darkness and the TEC told him that he must live to fight the Others. It is his destiny.
Finally, there is GRRM saying at the Stacey's signing (or was it Half Moon Bay?) that if a twelve year old has to save the world, so be it. Well Bran will turn 10 in ADWD. He will most likely be 12 by ADOS. I think he is who GRRM was referring to. Or George could have just been saying a ridiculously low age to make a point.

What do others think of Bran's destiny? Agree/disagree on the "main hero" aspect?

I just finished up Feast for Crows and I just cant find anything to read. I was looking at my bookshelves and saw 10,000 pages of wheel of time staring back at me. I am gonna do it, I am going to finish this series. I started once and got through the second book but then got distracted by other things and never went back. I did really like the first 2 books, I loved the prologue for the first book. I did find the first 1/3 of book one a little slow but I did really like what I read of the series.

I know many find the later books really slow, nothing happening, but I just feel the need to read these. I did hear good things about the last book. I really wish Mr. Jordan cold have lived long enough to complete this series but from what I have heard he left extensive notes on how everything should end.

I also wanted to know what books in the series deal more with the Aes Sedai, I love these characters. I know that some find them boring but I find there parts fascinating.

To mix things up I was thinking of reading The Prince of Nothing series too, I would probably rotate books as I went to keep things fresh. I don't know much about this series, can someone give me a little insight on it. How many book are in it, is the whole series finished yet?

Wish me luck

I meant to post this a couple of days ago (after failing to find a devoted thread here), but I recently reviewed Ekaterina Sedia's second novel, The Secret History of Moscow. It was a much better look at the city than what I encountered reading Sergei Lukyanenko's Watch series, and there's much there for fans of urban fantasy, specifically those who enjoyed Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere, although there isn't quite the humor that's present in Gaiman's underground London.

For those who've read it, please share your thoughts about the story, its strengths and weaknesses, and perhaps any questions you might have for the author, as she recently agreed to do an interview with me and I'm planning on submitting the first few questions tonight or tomorrow.

I have cut down significantly on my thread starting. But here's the deal. I came to Prince of Nothing about 9 months ago. I think it's mind-blowing. Why are we not still disussing it? I understand that many of you had long and drawn out talks before my time but why are they not still going? Speak!

I didn't want to hijack the other thread any more, so just wanted to see what people fancied doing.

Jo & Paddy have got my number, so I'll PM it to Pod and Peadar as well. Niamh has ruled herself out for the occasion Anyone else up/available for it?

My preference would be to go out on the Friday night, if someone can put me up afterwards, and then head home Saturday lunchtime/afternoon, but we can work around people's availability. And I'm going to be free every evening after 5.30pm from the sound of it.

The judges of the 2007 Philip K. Dick Award and the Philadelphia SF Society have announced the seven nominated works that comprise the final ballot for the award. The award recognizes distinguished science fiction published in paperback original form in the United States.

The nominees are:

Grey by Jon Armstrong (Night Shade Books)
Undertow by Elizabeth Bear (Bantam Spectra)
From the Notebooks of Dr. Brain by Minister Faust (Del Rey)
Nova Swing by M. John Harrison (Bantam Spectra)
Gradisil by Adam Roberts (Pyr)
Ally by Karen Traviss (Eos)
Saturn Returns by Sean Williams (Ace Books)

First prize and any special citations will be announced on Friday 21 March 2008 at Norwescon 31. Last year's winner was Spin Control by Chris Moriarty (Bantam Spectra) with a special citation to Carnival by Elizabeth Bear (Bantam Spectra).

Via SF Scope

Thoughts?

Many people have been asking for an update on Longclaw progress, so here we go. Things have taken much longer than we initially wanted. The blade is ready to be manufactured, prototypes are done, tooling is setup, but now we cannot quite get the finish we want. With Longclaw we are establishing the look of [...]

In the Jon spoiler chapter that GRRM recently posted, Melisandre describes the Wall as "one of the hinges of the world", while praising the lore and the spells that raised it.

What are the other hinges? Surely there is something very strange going on with the Shadow, hard by Asshai. That place is also associated with magic users, of a very unique school. And Old Valyria was another place famed for it's spellsingers who wrought such wondrous things; it's Doom remains largely shrouded in mystery to us, but it clearly changed the world.

Here is a map that I made this morning, based on an idea that I've been mulling on for a while. Essentially, it posits a northwest-southeast magical axis (or something), with the Heart of Winter and the Shadowlands at opposite poles, and Valyria in the middle. The Warlocks of Qarth and the Faceless Men of Braavos also get a shout, though I really had to distort Qarth's (presumed) location to fit it in. Also, some sites of magical significance cannot possibly fall along the axis, like the Isle of Faces. So it's probably all wrong, but hey. I tried to do a primitive, vaguely medieval looking map, which helped to avoid getting bogged down in details (the overwhelming majority of which we don't know, outside of Westeros).

Thoughts on what the hinges are, or what the term means? Is it simply places of such significance that the course of world events turn on what happens there?

Anyone going? It's like a mini-worldcon - similar format, fewer people. No GRRM alas, but if any other BwBers are there we could still raise a toast to him

I think I'm going to go - it takes place over the Easter weekend and costs £55 plus hotel stay. Link here.

Guests of honour are: China Mieville, Neil Gaiman, Tanith Lee and Charlie Stross.

*excited*


Edited to add link/spelling correction

O.k. I may be reading more into this that what is really there but in the new Jon Chapter Stannis has a bug in is ass because the Mormounts actually a ten year old girl told him to stuffit. She said the North has only one King and his name is Stark. Ten years old possible playmate of Rikkon, everybody thinks Brann is dead. Do you think it is possible that Rikkon is on Bear Island

I finished writing my review, after waiting almost 10 days after I finished reading it on Christmas Eve. I wanted to wait and not only post the review closer to its January 15th US release date, but also to make sure that I didn't get too eloquent in my praise.

I know this book has generated quite a bit of reaction, ranging from Pat's decision to drop it halfway through to kcf's conflicted response to Jay Tomio's enthusiastic review of it last month. I certainly think this is one of those books that has the potential to be a polarizing book. For people such as myself who love metanarratives and are intrigued by Performance Theory, Frost's work was like manna from heaven. For those who are not enamored with multilayered tales within tales, with the actors in these performances telling their own tales around the ones they are performing for their audiences, this probably isn't the book for them. But even that might be a hint of the possible "specialness" of this book, which will conclude in about 6-7 months with the release of Lord Tophet. Needless to say, that's moved to around the top of the list for my most anticipated 2008 releases.

But I'd like to hear the thoughts of others who've read this book already or those who are curious to know more. Since there wasn't a dedicated post for this book, I thought it was time for one, especially since there might be quite a bit of discussion generated from what occurs inside (and in-between) its 255 pages.

Just to summarise the hotel options...

Hotel Name Single Double Triple Quid Suites Blocks to CCC
1. Hyatt Regency Denver $159 $159 $184 $184 No 1 Next to CCC
2. Crowne Plaza Denver $129 $129 $129 $129 Yes 2 Childcare
3. Courtyard Denver Downtown $131 $141 $151 $161 No 2+ Quiet hotel
4. Westin Tabor Center $159 $159 $179 $199 No 5 Quiet hotel
5. Denver Marriott City Center $159 $159 $174 $174 Yes 4 Quiet hotel
6. Grand Hyatt Denver $159 $159 $159 $159 Yes 4 Quiet hotel
7. Adam's Mark (Sheraton) $149 $149 $149 $149 Yes 3.5 Party only hotel

Booking starts Jan 21st.

Further info can be found here.

After some questions on another forum about the dragon eggs Ilyrio gave to Daenerys, I thought I'd do a bit of digging and see if we can track what happened to the eggs before they came into Daenerys' care.

It is obvious that the dragon eggs came from Westeros. Whilst there are hints and rumours in the books of other dragons existing in the east, beyond the Shadow, these are never confirmed. If it was possible to acquire dragon eggs from there, you'd assume a lot more would be doing the rounds. Ilyrio's claim that they come from beyond Asshai can perhaps be interpreted as he didn't know where they came from originally or, more likely, he didn't want to appear a cheapskate by giving Daenerys something she was entitled to anyway

Most of the Targaryen dragons were wiped out in the civil war known as the Dance of Dragons in 129-131 AL, and those who survived were sick and weakly. Their skulls were no larger than mastiffs. The last dragon, a green, died during Aegon III's reign (131-157 AL) and it is rumoured that Aegon III poisoned the dragon (possibly with chemicals provided by the Citadel) as he feared the creatures after seeing his uncle's dragon kill his mother. We know this dragon left behind a clutch of eggs that did not hatch (The Hedge Knight). However, it is also said that Aegon III brought nine mages across from the Free Cities to try and hatch them. They failed.

From this, we can gather that Aegon III did not destroy the eggs. Perhaps he wanted to keep them as heirlooms of the house. The last few Targ dragons had been sick and feeble; their eggs not hatching may have simply been accepted as the failure of that line. With the nine mages failing to hatch them, Aegon III may have concluded that the eggs would never hatch and it was safe to hold onto them.

The eggs are next mentioned during the reign of Baelor the Blessed (161-171 AL). He prayed for a week over them and they did not hatch. Afterwards one of the eggs came into the possession of his younger sister, Elaena, who liked to carry it around with her during her incarceration in the Maidenvault (she was one of the Princesses in the Tower, who Baelor locked away so the sight of them would not tempt him to carnal thoughts). This is a important piece of information, as given by GRRM to Amoka for his portraits of the Targaryens. Of Elaena it is said:



Compare this to Daenerys being given the eggs by Ilyrio in Pentos:



Confirmation that Dany's eggs are the same ones that the Princesses in the Tower had almost 130 years earlier.

We know that Elaena was locked in the Maidenvault when she was 11 years old and that was during Baelor's first year on the throne (161 AL). We also know she lived to be more than 70 (c. 220 AL). Of course, we don't know if she kept the dragon egg with her at all times during her whole life. More likely, once she was older and getting into various misadventures, she left the egg with the rest in the Red Keep. Still, the timeframe and Elaena's later position at court (as the person 'secretly' in charge of the Targaryen finances) would indicate that she may crop up in forthcoming Dunk 'n' Egg stories and we may learn more.

In the intervening time there are two indirect references to the eggs. Aegon IV (who reigned 172-184 AL) couldn't hatch them either, so tried to build mechanical dragons which fell apart. Then, during the Blackfyre Rebellion (circa 196 AL) a companion of Daemon the Pretender's named Quickfinger tried to steal the dragon eggs (presumably from the Red Keep) but was prevented from doing so (The Sworn Sword).

The last time we hear of the eggs prior to Dany getting hold of them was at the Tragedy of Summerhall (259 AL) when the castle burned down on the night Prince Rhaegar was born to Prince Aerys, when King Aegon V, Ser Duncan the Tall of the Kingsguard and Prince Duncan Targaryen were all killed. Whilst it's not 100% confirmed it appears that fire happened in an attempt to hatch the eggs and got out of control. It'll be very interesting when we find out whose idea it was as, based on Egg's character in The Hedge Knight (he doesn't give a toss about his brother Aerion's dragon fantasies and is far more interested in knights), he doesn't seem the sort to go in for this stuff. Perhaps it was Aerys' idea, and we know he was obsessed with fire.

What happened to the eggs after the fire? Unknown. Given Rhaegar's obssession with the PWWP prophecy, he may have taken hold of them later in his life, or Aerys may have simply kept them safe at King's Landing. It's also unclear how they got into Ilyrio's hands. Sent over with Jon Connington or later, with Viserys and infant Dany herself? Maybe. It certainly seems that Ilyrio was 'keeping them safe' for Dany, but OTOH I wonder if he really believed they were going to hatch. Remember that they hatched in 298 AL, at least 167 years after they were laid, which seems an excessive amount of time. Perhaps the eggs could not hatch until magic returned to the world, or they could only hatch once they were much further east, where magic still exists and works properly.

I'm hoping that A Dance with Dragons will clear up the last lingering mysteries in this area.

Ok same deal if this one has been done before can someone get the link for it and delete this.

Everyone knows that Walder Frey doesnt have much time left with the living but who is gonna be his heir? It looks like Edwyn then Black Walder are the next 2 in line since Stevron died at Oxcross and Ryman got hanged by Uncat. Anyone think its gonna be different than what ive said and did i miss a Frey who is next in line?

The second part is if the next lord of the crossing is "Lord Blank" is he gonna clean house and start some serious house cleaning to get rid of potential enemies?

The third part is i find the Freys interesting and i do like them but do you think theyre alliance with the Boltons will last and is therye new found lands and power over the riverlands secure?

Lastly anyone have a count on how many bastard Freys are alive, dead, etc or at least have accountibility on them because all these Walders of 32 colors im lost!

I feel sorta special starting one of these!

Happy New Yeard everyone! Ye all know the rules!

Wheeeee... I think I've had enough celery in my drinks tonight